In October’s Senate Estimates, I questioned Senator Wong about Leppington Triangle (Western Sydney Airport) transparency.
Finance and Public Administration Legislation Committee
28/10/2022
Estimates
PRIME MINISTER AND CABINET PORTFOLIO
Department of the Prime Minister and Cabinet
Senator RENNICK: My question is for Minister Wong. I’d like to raise the issue of the Leppington Triangle audit. As you know, the Auditor-General ended up with egg on his face by claiming that the land was worth $3 million when it was worth $30 million. I’ve asked the Auditor-General previously in estimates for copies of the work papers with regard to that audit. You will remember that well, because you spent two hours interrogating the infrastructure department in RRAT one morning—
Sena tor Wong: I think you probably think my memory is better than it actually is, Senator Rennick, but that’s fine!
Senator RENNICK: That’s fine. My concern is that the Auditor-General won’t release the work papers from that audit. Given that he was so far out and failed to apply the proper accounting standards, and in the name of transparency, I’d like to know what the Prime Minister will do about that. That’s No. 1. And No. 2 is that I’d like to know whether or not the Prime Minister has ever had a relationship with the Auditor-General, given that they were both Labor staffers going back to the late eighties?
Senator Wong: The first is that the Auditor-General is appearing, I think, a bit later, because we have—
Senator RENNICK: I accept that, but I—
Senator Wong: Please. Obviously, you can put these questions directly to the Auditor-General. You’ve made a number of assertions about the Auditor-General’s history and I don’t know if they’re true. I—
Senator RENNICK: Well, he’s an ex-Labor staffer from way back—
Senator Wong: Well, I don’t know that.
Senator RENNICK: Yes, well, he is.
Senator Wong: Well, until you said that it was never something that I’ve been aware of.
Senator RENNICK: It’s my understanding that he was with Stewart West—
Senator Wong: It’s unfortunate that you’re making the imputation that you are. It’s an independent statutory office. He was appointed by your—
Senator RENNICK: Yes, I’ve said that—
Senator Wong: So if there’s some imputation about his professionalism then I ask you to consider carefully whether that’s an appropriate assertion—
Senator RENNICK: It is, because I’ll quote AASB 13, the standard for fair value—
Senator Wong: Well, it—
Senator RENNICK: and paragraphs 27 and 29 say that you value land at best use.
Senator Wong: Okay—
Senator RENNICK: He didn’t do that in the audit and that became a big political issue, which you spent two hours prosecuting in RRAT, okay? So I’m just holding you to the same standard that you tried to hold the Morrison government to.
Senator Wong: Well, my recollection is that I went to—this was a couple of years ago now?
Senator RENNICK: Yes.
Senator Wong: Yes. I’ve asked a lot of questions over the years—
Senator RENNICK: No, I accept that.
Senator Wong: And I’ve asked questions about a purchase which, from memory, I think the secretary himself agreed there were concerns about. You’re now talking about the Auditor-General’s report—
Senator RENNICK: Yes, I have issues around the professionalism.
Senator Wong: Yes, sure. Well, I’m not in a position to have an argument with you about an accounting standard, but I’m sure that’s something you could put to the Audit Office.
Senator RENNICK: I have.
Senator Wong: So what’s the question to me?
Senator RENNICK: My issue is that he won’t release the work papers around that audit, and I want to know why he got the zoning wrong and why he valued it wrong.
Senator Wong: He’s an independent statutory officer. Whoever holds that office makes the judgement about their work and what is included or not included in public reports. It’s not a political question.
Senator RENNICK: How can the Australian people have confidence in the impartiality of the Auditor-General when he’s clearly got something wrong by a factor of 90 per cent and he fails to disclose work papers? It might be that they are an independent statutory body, but who are they accountable to? My understanding is that these guys are ultimately reportable to the Prime Minister’s Office. In the name of transparency—
Senator Wong: Did you just assert that they were—
Senator RENNICK: They are appointed by—
Senator Wong: They are appointed by the government of the day, which was your government. That’s one. Secondly, they are accountable to the parliament. From memory, is there not a joint committee that has oversight or with whom the Auditor-General engages? I think you made an assertion that he’s appointed by the Prime Minister’s Office. You ought to withdraw that. That’s not—
Senator RENNICK: I will withdraw it.
Senator Wong: Thank you.
Senator RENNICK: It was our Prime Minister’s office, but going forward it’s something that needs to be raised. I’m concerned about it.
Senator Wong: The Joint Committee of Public Accounts and Audit.
Senator RENNICK: The problem is I have difficulty getting committees up because we don’t have the numbers. So this is the only means I have to try and hold the Auditor-General to account. I could try and move a motion to try and get an inquiry into this, but I doubt that you would vote for it.
Senator Wong: You as an elected senator have the right to come to these estimates hearings and ask questions. As a minister, I can respond. You have the right to come and ask the Auditor-General about the issues you have raised. I’ll just make the point it’s an independent statutory office. It reports to the parliament. Auditor-General reports have been, at times, difficult for governments of both political persuasions. I have had to deal with difficult Auditor-General reports and I’m sure Senator Birmingham has had to. But that’s the role in the polity that this office plays. If you do not agree with the work he has done, you are entitled to put that to him. I assume you have done that at previous estimates.
Senator RENNICK: Yes, and he rejects it and I disagree with—
Senator Wong: He obviously doesn’t agree—
Senator RENNICK: And he doesn’t disclose the work papers. I don’t think that’s right in the interests of public disclosure. So, if I were to move a motion, would the Labor Party support an inquiry into the role of the Auditor-General?
Senator Wong: I don’t think you would get your colleagues to support you. Senator Birmingham is going to tell you that. Would I agree with an inquiry into an officer of an independent statutory body who is already subject to oversight by the parliament because you disagree with him? Probably not.
Senator RENNICK: It’s because he won’t disclose the work papers. It became a political issue of the day.
Senator Wong: It was a political issue, but what you are asking is: should the executive direct a statutory officer as to what they should provide to the Senate? It’s a bit difficult.
Senator RENNICK: That’s not what I am saying.
Senator Wong: I thought—
Senator RENNICK: I am not trying to have a go at you.
Senator Wong: No, but I thought that was what you are saying. You are asking: can you make sure he gives us his working papers? I thought that was—
Senator RENNICK: I want the parliament to support that the Auditor-General releases those working papers. The coalition do not have the numbers by themselves to get up an inquiry into this. I can have my colleagues support me, but—
CHAIR: You can have an inquiry in the oversight committee.
Senator Wong: I am happy for you to come and ask questions when he appears.
Senator RENNICK: But he won’t disclose the work papers.
Senator Wong: It might be useful for him to explain why.
CHAIR: Let’s just be clear. We have given the coalition a whole hour here, which means we have not allocated the coalition much time for the ANAO this afternoon as a result. If you want to explore that further—
Senator RENNICK: I’ll come back. I won’t get anywhere—but anyway; thanks.
