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Senator RENNICK: Maybe it’s a statement. Let’s move on to the next one. The other night I asked you about blood tests and donating blood after three days. You said there’s no reason why the spike protein would be in the actual blood. Firstly, in the actual non-clinical evaluation report from the TGA it says there is no actual testing of the spike protein in the clinic itself. To say that you wouldn’t know that it’s in the blood – you wouldn’t actually know that because, as it says here, there is no distribution and degradation data on the S-antigen encoding mRNA, that is, the spike protein. The same question to you. The other night you said, ‘It wouldn’t be in the blood.’ My question to you is: how would you know that if there is never any testing done on the spike protein, firstly? A study published in May 2021 documented for the first time that S-proteins were found in 11 of the 13 subjects as early as one day after the injection of, in this case, the Moderna vaccine. Prof. Murphy: Where? Senator RENNICK: In the blood. They found the spike protein in the blood. Studies have found spike proteins in the blood as early as one day after the actual vaccine. Prof. Murphy: All I can say is that I’m happy to take that issue on notice again and get Professor Skerritt to respond on the full dataset that we have around this issue. I’ve not seen any evidence that spike proteins are detected three days after vaccines in any studies that I’ve seen. But I’m not across all of the literature. If it’s a legitimate question I will get the TGA to address it. Senator RENNICK: You wouldn’t find that evidence because there were no studies done, according to this TGA report. Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. They are two separate things. […] Prof. Murphy: I certainly didn’t say that, but Professor Skerritt may have. We’ve let him go now. Again, we’ll take it on notice to come back to you on that issue. I have really strong confidence in our regulatory process. We now have real-world evidence of many billions of doses of these vaccines. We believe that they are incredibly effective and incredibly safe. Professor Skerritt said we only had I think 14 confirmed deaths associated with vaccines, and many of them were with AstraZeneca. I really do have great faith in our regulatory system.

1. Senator RENNICK: My question is, again, with regard to the size of the crowd that came to Canberra on 12 February. That area was measured out at 60,000 square metres. You’ve previously said that the crowd size was about 10,000 people, which works out at about one person per every six square metres, which is about two metres by two metres. I was there and can tell you that was not the case. Can I get access to the software where you calculated that? I think last time you said you used some software or you used some method. I’d like to see the methodology you used to calculate the size of that crowd if that’s alright please. Mr Kershaw: I think what we can do is come back to you as to how we made that assessment. 2. Senator RENNICK: I appreciate that. Can I also get access to any correspondence that you had with other government agencies about the size of that crowd?

Senator RENNICK: …I’d also like to raise the issue of the RBA’s management of Australia’s gold in London. Australia owns 80 tons of gold that’s held at the Bank of England. The RBA has disclosed that that 80 tons was refined in 2015 and onwards. They were never informed by the Bank of England until after that event had occurred. I’m curious to know what the AFP’s view is on the fact that the RBA wasn’t even aware that 80 tons of gold, which has a market value of $6 billion, isn’t being properly managed by an independent statutory authority. Mr Kershaw: I’ll take that on notice, noting that I don’t know if we have any remit on that. But we’ll come back to you.

Senator RENNICK: Okay, then I’ll ask the professors. There was no genotoxicity study done for the rollout of the vaccine. The vaccine has been rolled out now for up to 18 or 20 months. Has any genotoxicity study been performed on the vaccine given that there are a number of modifications to the spike protein that weren’t in the initial virus? Prof. Murphy: I’ll just see if Ms Duffy from the TGA is online, and whether TGA officials can provide any information about that. They are obviously across all of the material that’s submitted as part of the vaccine evaluation. Ms Duffy: I’m sorry, I don’t have that information, but I’m happy to take it on notice and bring it back on Thursday if that suits you. Senator RENNICK: That’s fine. Initially, when you looked at the assessment it said there were no genotoxicity studies done at all, or carcinogenic or longevity studies. I’m just curious if you’ve done any since? Ms Duffy: We’ll go back and be able to provide that information on Thursday.

Senator RENNICK: I don’t have those particular New South Wales health numbers in front of me, but vaccinated 1, 2, 3, 4 groups all have higher numbers of hospital transmission and ICU admission. Prof. Kelly: We know, absolutely, without hesitation, that, with fully vaccinated people, just two doses is enough to give at least a 30-times less chance of being hospitalised—in Australia; that’s Australian data. Senator RENNICK: Based on what, because the non-clinical report said – Senator Gallagher: Based on vaccination data. Prof. Kelly: Based on the truth and facts. Senator RENNICK: Be more specific than that. Actually quote the data source, please. Prof. Kelly: That’s the data source from the national data that we have, in the Commonwealth, which is provided to us by the states and territories. Senator RENNICK: Can you provide that to me? I haven’t seen the state data outside New South Wales. Prof. Kelly: I’m very happy to provide that to you on notice.

233. Can the TGA or Pfizer show studies that all of the mRNA gets taken up by the cells? 234. What happens to the lipid nanoparticles that don’t get taken up by the cells? 235. How long will a spike protein produced by the mRNA vaccine stay in the body? 236. For the mRNA/Lipid Nanoparticles that doesn’t get taken up by cells is there a risk they mutate and become toxic in the body? 237. If the genetic Covid-19 vaccine is damaged in handling or storage how does Pfizer/TGA know that the mRNA won’t produce mutations of the spike protein rather than the protein itself? 238. After the Covid vaccine is given how quickly will the body start to produce spike proteins and how quickly after that will the body start to produce antibodies? 246. What cells or organs is the mRNA code meant to go into – just muscle cells or other organ cells as well – has this been tested – how can the TGA guarantee that Lipid nanoparticles or spike proteins won’t go into other organs?

204. Prior mRNA vaccine studies in rats resulted in the rats producing super numerary ribs. These are a sign of maternal distress are they not? 205. Given that animals studies indicated maternal distress from the mRNA vaccines why didn’t Pfizer perform more comprehensive studies on pregnant and breastfeeding women before rolling it out to the general population? Furthermore, why didn’t the TGA ask that Pfizer be more thorough in its investigations before approving for pregnant and breast feeding women in Australia?

70. Two adverse events 703379, a 6 year old girl and 703334, a 7 year old boy have no details. In order to ensure full transparency around adverse events from children vaccines, can ATAGI ask the TGA to disclose what these injuries are? 71. Given the large number of adverse events in children already, will ATAGI revise its decision to allow the rollout of the vaccine given case numbers have dropped significantly and models have overestimated the infection rate in the community? 72. I note that ATAGI is relying on passive surveillance of vaccinated in children in the USA rather than active surveillance. How does ATAGI know that every adverse reaction experienced amongst the 6 million children in the USA has been detected, if the FDA/Pfizer is not actively monitoring every child?

Senator RENNICK: Maybe it’s a statement. Let’s move on to the next one. The other night I asked you about blood tests and donating blood after three days. You said there’s no reason why the spike protein would be in the actual blood. Firstly, in the actual non-clinical evaluation report from the TGA it says there is no actual testing of the spike protein in the clinic itself. To say that you wouldn’t know that it’s in the blood – you wouldn’t actually know that because, as it says here, there is no distribution and degradation data on the S-antigen encoding mRNA, that is, the spike protein. The same question to you. The other night you said, ‘It wouldn’t be in the blood.’ My question to you is: how would you know that if there is never any testing done on the spike protein, firstly? A study published in May 2021 documented for the first time that S-proteins were found in 11 of the 13 subjects as early as one day after the injection of, in this case, the Moderna vaccine. Prof. Murphy: Where? Senator RENNICK: In the blood. They found the spike protein in the blood. Studies have found spike proteins in the blood as early as one day after the actual vaccine. Prof. Murphy: All I can say is that I’m happy to take that issue on notice again and get Professor Skerritt to respond on the full dataset that we have around this issue. I’ve not seen any evidence that spike proteins are detected three days after vaccines in any studies that I’ve seen. But I’m not across all of the literature. If it’s a legitimate question I will get the TGA to address it. Senator RENNICK: You wouldn’t find that evidence because there were no studies done, according to this TGA report. Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. They are two separate things. […] Prof. Murphy: I certainly didn’t say that, but Professor Skerritt may have. We’ve let him go now. Again, we’ll take it on notice to come back to you on that issue. I have really strong confidence in our regulatory process. We now have real-world evidence of many billions of doses of these vaccines. We believe that they are incredibly effective and incredibly safe. Professor Skerritt said we only had I think 14 confirmed deaths associated with vaccines, and many of them were with AstraZeneca. I really do have great faith in our regulatory system.

1. Senator RENNICK: My question is, again, with regard to the size of the crowd that came to Canberra on 12 February. That area was measured out at 60,000 square metres. You’ve previously said that the crowd size was about 10,000 people, which works out at about one person per every six square metres, which is about two metres by two metres. I was there and can tell you that was not the case. Can I get access to the software where you calculated that? I think last time you said you used some software or you used some method. I’d like to see the methodology you used to calculate the size of that crowd if that’s alright please. Mr Kershaw: I think what we can do is come back to you as to how we made that assessment. 2. Senator RENNICK: I appreciate that. Can I also get access to any correspondence that you had with other government agencies about the size of that crowd?

Senator RENNICK: …I’d also like to raise the issue of the RBA’s management of Australia’s gold in London. Australia owns 80 tons of gold that’s held at the Bank of England. The RBA has disclosed that that 80 tons was refined in 2015 and onwards. They were never informed by the Bank of England until after that event had occurred. I’m curious to know what the AFP’s view is on the fact that the RBA wasn’t even aware that 80 tons of gold, which has a market value of $6 billion, isn’t being properly managed by an independent statutory authority. Mr Kershaw: I’ll take that on notice, noting that I don’t know if we have any remit on that. But we’ll come back to you.

Senator RENNICK: Okay, then I’ll ask the professors. There was no genotoxicity study done for the rollout of the vaccine. The vaccine has been rolled out now for up to 18 or 20 months. Has any genotoxicity study been performed on the vaccine given that there are a number of modifications to the spike protein that weren’t in the initial virus? Prof. Murphy: I’ll just see if Ms Duffy from the TGA is online, and whether TGA officials can provide any information about that. They are obviously across all of the material that’s submitted as part of the vaccine evaluation. Ms Duffy: I’m sorry, I don’t have that information, but I’m happy to take it on notice and bring it back on Thursday if that suits you. Senator RENNICK: That’s fine. Initially, when you looked at the assessment it said there were no genotoxicity studies done at all, or carcinogenic or longevity studies. I’m just curious if you’ve done any since? Ms Duffy: We’ll go back and be able to provide that information on Thursday.

Senator RENNICK: I don’t have those particular New South Wales health numbers in front of me, but vaccinated 1, 2, 3, 4 groups all have higher numbers of hospital transmission and ICU admission. Prof. Kelly: We know, absolutely, without hesitation, that, with fully vaccinated people, just two doses is enough to give at least a 30-times less chance of being hospitalised—in Australia; that’s Australian data. Senator RENNICK: Based on what, because the non-clinical report said – Senator Gallagher: Based on vaccination data. Prof. Kelly: Based on the truth and facts. Senator RENNICK: Be more specific than that. Actually quote the data source, please. Prof. Kelly: That’s the data source from the national data that we have, in the Commonwealth, which is provided to us by the states and territories. Senator RENNICK: Can you provide that to me? I haven’t seen the state data outside New South Wales. Prof. Kelly: I’m very happy to provide that to you on notice.

233. Can the TGA or Pfizer show studies that all of the mRNA gets taken up by the cells? 234. What happens to the lipid nanoparticles that don’t get taken up by the cells? 235. How long will a spike protein produced by the mRNA vaccine stay in the body? 236. For the mRNA/Lipid Nanoparticles that doesn’t get taken up by cells is there a risk they mutate and become toxic in the body? 237. If the genetic Covid-19 vaccine is damaged in handling or storage how does Pfizer/TGA know that the mRNA won’t produce mutations of the spike protein rather than the protein itself? 238. After the Covid vaccine is given how quickly will the body start to produce spike proteins and how quickly after that will the body start to produce antibodies? 246. What cells or organs is the mRNA code meant to go into – just muscle cells or other organ cells as well – has this been tested – how can the TGA guarantee that Lipid nanoparticles or spike proteins won’t go into other organs?

204. Prior mRNA vaccine studies in rats resulted in the rats producing super numerary ribs. These are a sign of maternal distress are they not? 205. Given that animals studies indicated maternal distress from the mRNA vaccines why didn’t Pfizer perform more comprehensive studies on pregnant and breastfeeding women before rolling it out to the general population? Furthermore, why didn’t the TGA ask that Pfizer be more thorough in its investigations before approving for pregnant and breast feeding women in Australia?

70. Two adverse events 703379, a 6 year old girl and 703334, a 7 year old boy have no details. In order to ensure full transparency around adverse events from children vaccines, can ATAGI ask the TGA to disclose what these injuries are? 71. Given the large number of adverse events in children already, will ATAGI revise its decision to allow the rollout of the vaccine given case numbers have dropped significantly and models have overestimated the infection rate in the community? 72. I note that ATAGI is relying on passive surveillance of vaccinated in children in the USA rather than active surveillance. How does ATAGI know that every adverse reaction experienced amongst the 6 million children in the USA has been detected, if the FDA/Pfizer is not actively monitoring every child?

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